Statement regarding the latest Gemini 4.3.1 for the DM500

Zitat

Imagine that 'Some developer Cam Team' creates a new release just for use with clone boxes and all the others o try to install this new version will have there box killed...

They are not allowed to modify or damage any software which is not theirs. DMM 'killed' their own bootloader-software which is copyrighted and only licensed for original dreamboxes, and not software from you or anyone else. If they would have 'killed' software which is not their own, you would have a right to complain! But the bootloader is not yours, its their own and they can do whatever they want with it! If you install it without license and permission, on a box that is not *compatible* with this software, you can't complain!

If their own cam-software doesn't work on clone-boxes and gets killed their ... you can't complain too!

What's next? Installing DMM Software on your mobile-phone and if your mobile-phone doesn't work anymore ... you would go to DMM and complain there because your illegally used software is not compatible with your phone??? You were not allowed to install and use this software without license, and this software was not even made for clone-box hardware or mobile-phones. If it causes trouble there ... your bad!

would be nice if the clone users change their profiles and stop pretending to own DMM boxes

jobego

no pm´s will be answered, put your comments on the board

Zitat

Original von Jobego
would be nice if the clone users change their profiles and stop pretending to own DMM boxes

And after that the police should go their house, take this clone-box and destroy it! Like they already do it with tons of other illegal products every day.

And like in Italy, people who buyed a clone-box and did know this ... should get caught by lawyers and pay up to 10.000€ because in italy it is illegal to buy and use 'clone-stuff'. Nobody cares if you have problems with this stuff or not, it is illegally there already to buy and use this stuff.

Sad we still don't have any laws like this in germany, but at least it's on the "ToDo" list from our Politicans and one day it will be illegal here to buy and use 'clone-stuff', like in italy. Hopefully this will be something from EU that all countries in EU have to accept. Not only those who build those clones get problems with law, those who buy and use this stuff (with the knowledge that this is a clone) should get problems too! Without clone-stuff and people who support this, our world would be better! This clone-stuff is bad, uses cheaper and more crappy and untested hardware, stolen software, no waranty and no right to complain if you have problems. We don't need this crap! The only winners are those bad guys who build those clones and made tenthousands of dollars with it, simply by doing illegal things by copying hardware and stealing, using and selling stolen software to make a lot of money.

And those who did not know that they bought a clone should contact their lawyer and try to take legal-actions against the guy who sold you this clone-box to get at least the money back! However, they are not easy to catch because they know they did something illegal and don't leave their name on the box.

From what I understand, no clone box has been damaged in any way, the only thing that has happened is that DMM has prevented clones from running DMM licensed boot, it is up to the manufacturer and suppliers of these clone boxes to write and produce their own boot and image files for these clone boxes, and not just use without license DMM intellectual property. If I built a clone of a MAC computer and used their boot software and operating system, would I be surprised if they found a way to stop me doing this. The clone boxes have not been damaged. For those that deliberately bought a clone box, please contact your suppliers and ask them to install a non DMM boot, if they have one. For those who thought they were buying an genuine 500 but were conned in to buying a clone, report the company that sold it to you, to trading standards in the country the supplier is based.

This will be the start of the end of unauthorized clone boxes, not just Dreambox, but other manufacturers. If we all bought clones then the original manufactures would not produce new models and the hobby would become stagnant. Who wants to spend $$$ on R&D, when someone else takes the profit. DMM are a business, there to make profit, not a charity.

And try reading the first post statement from IHAD before posting, and slagging them off.

Zitat

Originally posted by Homey[GER]
They did something bad and they have deserved it!

Well well Homey, I think, that it was not very smart move from DM, and it shows that they are missing business sense. What I would do if I was them is, that I would try to sell my licence for that piece of software to the vendor of the clones, so I would make money on that. If this doesn't work than I would take legal steps against them and also I would make financial claims for the caused harm. And that would be the right way to settle this down.

Also you have mentioned here, that the people using hacked Windows XP cannot blame Microsoft, if they decide to disable their OS. But Microsoft NEVER DELETED any software from their PCs or notebooks and they could do it any time through the patches and service packs. Even the now tested piracy protection system just tells you, that you are using illegal software and gives you the chance to correct it. Also it is said in patch explanation, that this patch is going to check, if your system or application is legal.

And I would never expected this kind of move from the Linux comunity but from Microsoft. Well, I am still learning...

Homer

What you mean missing business sense? how is that logic corect?

They are already missing business due to these clones in operation. I think dream multimedia would rather people buy their original boxes than see licences off to third party company.

@ Homey
I think it goes both ways, Europe sells licences to China , then China sends the things back to Europe and we here sell them as European production, What has now happened is that someone in China has cloned a product and sold it here as an original without the licence ( wohl bemerkt). It wasn´t my intention to send the police round to their doorsteps, it was just to recognise who has an original and who hasnt, we all walk a tight-line with what we do ( Eiertanz)

jobego

Zitat

What I would do if I was them is, that I would try to sell my licence for that piece of software to the vendor of the clones, so I would make money on that. If this doesn't work than I would take legal steps against them and also I would make financial claims for the caused harm. And that would be the right way to settle this down.

But this is not so easy if nobody knows who really build those clones. Made somewhere in 'china town' by unknown people. DMM is already taking actions against people who sold those boxes and they will also take actions against clone-producers, if they ever find out who it was. Because for sure those people did know that they do something illegal and try to hide their name.

And even if you get one of them. Would this be a guarantee that nobody else does the same again? If you catch one bad guy who build clones, another one will come and steal software again and making money with it. The only good solution is to protecting your own software and making stealing and illegal-use of this software impossible. If they want to protect their software and making it useless on boxes where it is not allowed to run, it's their good right to do so!

Zitat

Also you have mentioned here, that the people using hacked Windows XP cannot blame Microsoft, if they decide to disable their OS. But Microsoft NEVER DELETED any software from their PCs or notebooks and they could do it any time through the patches and service packs.

And why? Because they don't want to 'ban' millions of windows users and force them to install linux or other systems. From one day to the other millions of people would leave windows and switch to Linux. MS would be stupid if they do so! And they make more then enough money, they don't really have to care ... as long they make enough money with their windows. If nobody buys Windows anymore one day, and everyone buys a illegaly copy for 10 Dollar, MS would also try to take actions against the clone software and try to making it useless with patches and updates. I am pretty sure ...

getting stupid,
fact is, that Clones are Clones, they have never worked as good as the originals and they are pre-destined to die at some time, DMM and may I say ? Gemini will sort it out, I have no problems with it. DOWN with Clones

jobego,

no pm´s please, I can´t be bothered

Zitat

Originally posted by maxl

i guess you had an hard night - being so confused

gemini is no original DMM image - just ask DMM if you do not believe -

No doubt Gemini isn't an original image, but it would sure be interesting to have an explanation of what DreamSAT (admin of the ihadna site who I believe goes by a similar name here) appears to be implying with his statement:

Zitat

as I said before, I am saying it again, it is unknown to most people what is ihad - TGP - DMM and the relation between the three. so, I recommend you use your wildest imaginations.

h**p://www.ihadna.com/wbb2/thread.php?postid=19648#post19648

The inference right there is that there is obviously a more than questionable relationship between the parties involved in this attack.

Hi All

Just my 2 cents worth. Although I agree that the use of clone boxes is wrong and should not be supported. I have to say that there were easier options to stop this than wiping the bootloader. It just should have stated that clones were no longer going to be supported. End of story. Software for origonal DBs would not be compatitable with clones and would stop them for working if loaded. In relation to the statement that people knowingly buy clone boxes, that I disagree with. I have 3 origional db500s although at the time I got them I wouldnt have know a clone from an origional. Now I do.

These people have been stung badly now and a sweeping statement saying good luck to them is not entirely charitable. After all these boards and others are meant to help people not dismiss them as parasites because they didnt know they had a clone. The action taken by DMM was well within their rights but as pthers have said punishing the common man is the easy option, chasing the cloners is the one they should have done and at least given people with clones fair warning.
Like I said just my 2 cents worths.
PS I dont blame this site but I do blame DMM and think that this action has lost them a lot of respect and futiure sales

Hi All

Just my 2 cents worth. Although I agree that the use of clone boxes is wrong and should not be supported. I have to say that there were easier options to stop this than wiping the bootloader. It just should have stated that clones were no longer going to be supported. End of story. Software for origonal DBs would not be compatitable with clones and would stop them for working if loaded. In relation to the statement that people knowingly buy clone boxes, that I disagree with. I have 3 origional db500s although at the time I got them I wouldnt have know a clone from an origional. Now I do.

These people have been stung badly now and a sweeping statement saying good luck to them is not entirely charitable. After all these boards and others are meant to help people not dismiss them as parasites because they didnt know they had a clone. The action taken by DMM was well within their rights but as pthers have said punishing the common man is the easy option, chasing the cloners is the one they should have done and at least given people with clones fair warning.
Like I said just my 2 cents worths.
PS I dont blame this site but I do blame DMM and think that this action has lost them a lot of respect and future sales

Zitat

Originally posted by Homey[GER]
But this is not so easy if nobody knows who really build those clones. Made somewhere in 'china town' by unknown people. DMM is already taking actions against people who sold those boxes and they will also take actions against clone-producers, if they ever find out who it was. Because for sure those people did know that they do something illegal and try to hide their name.

And even if you get one of them. Would this be a guarantee that nobody else does the same again? If you catch one bad guy who build clones, another one will come and steal software again and making money with it. The only good solution is to protecting your own software and making stealing and illegal-use of this software impossible. If they want to protect their software and making it useless on boxes where it is not allowed to run, it's their good right to do so!

In same situation is the Microsoft.

But there is available enough legal steps to stop selling and importing those products to EU. Its similar to Addidas, Puma, Versace and other products, which fakes are confiscated by te customs almost every week and destroyed by them.

Zitat

And why? Because they don't want to 'ban' millions of windows users and force them to install linux or other systems. From one day to the other millions of people would leave windows and switch to Linux. MS would be stupid if they do so! And they make more then enough money, they don't really have to care ... as long they make enough money with their windows. If nobody buys Windows anymore one day, and everyone buys a illegaly copy for 10 Dollar, MS would also try to take actions against the clone software and try to making it useless with patches and updates. I am pretty sure ...

Well, very childish thinking... So Microsoft does not want to ban millions users and force them to install Linux? And what would be the business point of that? The pirates didn't pay for the software anyway... . And that they have enough money so they do not have to care? Oh my... Bigger company has bigger overhead costs, so they care about every single dollar as the DM does.
Its maybe you are living in dream, that everybody would switch to Linux but that is not easy as its said. In some situations its impossible. Trust me...

Homer

Zitat

Originally posted by robin58
No doubt Gemini isn't an original image, but it would sure be interesting to have an explanation of what DreamSAT (admin of the ihadna site who I believe goes by a similar name here) appears to be implying with his statement:

h**p://www.ihadna.com/wbb2/thread.php?postid=19648#post19648

The inference right there is that there is obviously a more than questionable relationship between the parties involved in this attack.

Alles anzeigen

Not sure what do you mean by "The inference right there....", if "there" means your canadian "CloneboxForNewbies" clone board/clone dealers, then, I guess go discuss that issue with them not here. Read my signature, and go post a new thread at your canadian "CloneboxForNewbies" clone board/clone dealers, to let their "wanna be coders" start doing something about their be-loved clones.

Sincerely,
Adios Amigo

Maybe you can put the yellow ribbon around the arm of every clone box owner, as step two...?

Zitat

Originally posted by robin58
No doubt Gemini isn't an original image, but it would sure be interesting to have an explanation of what DreamSAT (admin of the ihadna site who I believe goes by a similar name here) appears to be implying with his statement:

h**p://www.ihadna.com/wbb2/thread.php?postid=19648#post19648

The inference right there is that there is obviously a more than questionable relationship between the parties involved in this attack.

Alles anzeigen

Not sure what do you mean by "The inference right there....", if "there" means your canadian "CloneBoxForNewbies" clone board/clone dealers, then, I guess go discuss that issue with them not here. Read my signature, and go post a new thread at your canadian "CloneBoxForNewbies" clone board/clone dealers, to let their "wanna be coders" start doing something about their be-loved clones.

Sincerely,
Adios Amigo

homer

I agree with you. Your comments make sense. DMM just needs good managment and their last move proved it. That action doesn't win new or more custommers, what was probably the main reason for realising it.

kitty: that´s definetly true!

It would not bring any new customers and it was awkward to write "adios amigo" - instead of a technical looking screen, just mentioning a software problem.
THAT was the real mistake they made.

Zitat

Originally posted by passi007
kitty: that´s definetly true!

It would not bring any new customers and it was awkward to write "adios amigo" - instead of a technical looking screen, just mentioning a software problem.
THAT was the real mistake they made.

I am not sure about Europe, but here in the US, there is something called "Black Market" where you can buy stolen goods, dirt cheap, but if you get caught with such goods, you will face a criminal charge as the thief who stole it. Buying Stolen Property is the same as Stealing, hope you get my point.

passi
"adios amigo" tells me, that there is no proffesional background on the move. The real mistake was the whole thing. Like homer explained, they should have tried to sell the license or going the way through the court. The company can not be succesfull with such way of solving problems, because the trust to this brand is decreased, especially for new custommers.

Anyway, DMM proves a big lack in their managment.